Segregation
A group of women in our YM organized a “Paint and Pray” weekend to do some work on the meetinghouse in Woodland and as an opportunity to get together. My wife was invited but, since I’m a man, I was not. Over lunch at our Yearly Meeting sessions one Friend expressed his disapproval of such segregated Friends gatherings. It got me thinking. Is this in right order or not?
We have an equality testimony that rejects invidious distinctions among people. At one point in our history it became common for there to be men’s meetings and women’s meetings. It came to be felt that this sort of “separate but equal” way of living out our equality testimony was not good enough. There was a tendency to assume that the men’s meeting was doing the real work, while the women’s meeting was doing “women’s work.” Separate men’s and women’s meetings were laid down and Friends no longer divide by sex. So are gatherings like the “Paint and Pray” weekend open only to women a reversion to the past? Upon reflection I find it to be in right order. Friends with common interests sometimes find it energizing to come together. Why shouldn’t some of these special gatherings be all-female? The practice bears watching however because if we were to find that dividing Friends into groups according to sex were to become the norm instead of an occasional thing then we would be back to “separate but equal” and that would not be in gospel order.
Upon further reflection I find that when it comes to young adult Friends (YAFs) such segregated gatherings are not merely an occasional thing. I would ask Friends to reflect seriously on the possibility that we are treating YAFs as implicitly second-class Quakers by encouraging them to meet so often among themselves and so rarely among us OAFs (older adult Friends.) Two recent blog posts suggest this to me. One is by “James Naylor” of Quaking Harlot. http://quakingharlot.blogspot.com/ “James” writes of her experience and wonders why so many of the YAFs who were specially trained and nurtured to become the next generation of Quaker leaders have instead dropped out of involvement with Friends organizations. James writes: "A series of events recently had me thinking, again, on why it is that so many young adult Friends seem to drift away…I have many lines of thought on this phenomenon. Currently, I am pondering how it is that few of my year in QLSP are actively involved with Friends." Another is the comment by Micah Bales http://valiantforthetruth.blogspot.com/ writing about the FUM Triennial: "Thursday night, after Bolling's presentation, the few Young Adult Friends present at this event gathered together, along with a few other YAFs who had come over from North Carolina Yearly Meeting (Conservative), which is holding its annual sessions in nearby Greensboro. There were about a dozen of us, and we shared together about our experiences in the past few years, as well as about our frustrations as young adults in a religious community that alternately pampers us and patronizes us. There was a great sense that we are hungry for a more intergenerational life in community. We are, first and foremost, adult Friends. We just happen to be part of a religious community that tends towards the upper age range. Christ is teaching his people himself, and it's not limited to any age group. "
The common thread here is that something is out of order in the way we are dealing with YAFs. I would ask Friends to seriously consider the possibility that our frequent sponsoring of segregated YAF events “pampers and patronizes” people who are essentially Quakers who just happen to be younger than we are. Query 12 of our Yearly Meeting's queries for the monthly meetings has it right, I think. “Are our younger members appointed to committees and encouraged to share in other responsibilities of the Meeting?” This query directs us to treat younger members of meeting in the same way we treat older members. It advises us not to treat them as unique or special. It does not pamper, it does not patronize, and, Friends, it is good advice.
We have an equality testimony that rejects invidious distinctions among people. At one point in our history it became common for there to be men’s meetings and women’s meetings. It came to be felt that this sort of “separate but equal” way of living out our equality testimony was not good enough. There was a tendency to assume that the men’s meeting was doing the real work, while the women’s meeting was doing “women’s work.” Separate men’s and women’s meetings were laid down and Friends no longer divide by sex. So are gatherings like the “Paint and Pray” weekend open only to women a reversion to the past? Upon reflection I find it to be in right order. Friends with common interests sometimes find it energizing to come together. Why shouldn’t some of these special gatherings be all-female? The practice bears watching however because if we were to find that dividing Friends into groups according to sex were to become the norm instead of an occasional thing then we would be back to “separate but equal” and that would not be in gospel order.
Upon further reflection I find that when it comes to young adult Friends (YAFs) such segregated gatherings are not merely an occasional thing. I would ask Friends to reflect seriously on the possibility that we are treating YAFs as implicitly second-class Quakers by encouraging them to meet so often among themselves and so rarely among us OAFs (older adult Friends.) Two recent blog posts suggest this to me. One is by “James Naylor” of Quaking Harlot. http://quakingharlot.blogspot.com/ “James” writes of her experience and wonders why so many of the YAFs who were specially trained and nurtured to become the next generation of Quaker leaders have instead dropped out of involvement with Friends organizations. James writes: "A series of events recently had me thinking, again, on why it is that so many young adult Friends seem to drift away…I have many lines of thought on this phenomenon. Currently, I am pondering how it is that few of my year in QLSP are actively involved with Friends." Another is the comment by Micah Bales http://valiantforthetruth.blogspot.com/ writing about the FUM Triennial: "Thursday night, after Bolling's presentation, the few Young Adult Friends present at this event gathered together, along with a few other YAFs who had come over from North Carolina Yearly Meeting (Conservative), which is holding its annual sessions in nearby Greensboro. There were about a dozen of us, and we shared together about our experiences in the past few years, as well as about our frustrations as young adults in a religious community that alternately pampers us and patronizes us. There was a great sense that we are hungry for a more intergenerational life in community. We are, first and foremost, adult Friends. We just happen to be part of a religious community that tends towards the upper age range. Christ is teaching his people himself, and it's not limited to any age group. "
The common thread here is that something is out of order in the way we are dealing with YAFs. I would ask Friends to seriously consider the possibility that our frequent sponsoring of segregated YAF events “pampers and patronizes” people who are essentially Quakers who just happen to be younger than we are. Query 12 of our Yearly Meeting's queries for the monthly meetings has it right, I think. “Are our younger members appointed to committees and encouraged to share in other responsibilities of the Meeting?” This query directs us to treat younger members of meeting in the same way we treat older members. It advises us not to treat them as unique or special. It does not pamper, it does not patronize, and, Friends, it is good advice.
posted by RichardM | 8:04 AM
15 Comments:
This is good stuff, Daddy. We YAFs can whine about it until the cows come home, but if OAFs aren't saying it too, we'll never get anywhere.
I often think of a something I saw in a pamphlet once. A crisis had hit the fledgling Quaker movement and Fox put out a call to gather the "most ancient Quakers" together for a strategy meeting. It was the first meeting of ministers/elders, the predecessor to our yearly meetings and committees and someone later looked at those in attendance. The median age of these ancient Friends was in the mid-30s.
And no, it wasn't because people didn't live as long, blah blah blah, it was because things were new, there were no Quaker families, there was no one who had dominated a committee for years, there were no staff, there were budgets. The Quaker movement were all people who knew first hand that Christ had come back to teach the people Himself and that we must cross the land and bear injustice to share the good news.
I had spent years as a YAF myself organizing it and I saw my generation disappearing and I started doing education wherever I could to help educate the older generation and ground the next. I started blogging about Quaker youth issues. I was mostly ignored.
Then something odd started happening at FGC, where I worked. A bunch of sixty-somethings all of the sudden started talking about youth programs behind closed doors. They didn't ask any young people about it until the plan was more or less set: they were going to hire a staff person and host lots of conferences. There was a "consultation" and I and others politely tried to share our experiences and say we needed to look at bigger power dynamics and inclusion, and lots of "yes yes, thank you's" were said in response. But the plan was the same: hire a staff person and host lots of conferences.
I'm not saying there's not some value in conferences. It's great to meet others and there's a big glow afterwards. But what's the median age of our committees? And when a younger person is given responsibility is it because of them or their parent or their school? For all the money being spent I don't see things have changed so much. It grieves me that "James" is describing the same dynamic yet again. This is like the third generation I'm seeing that happen to and I'm ready to cry here.
Martin,
(I hope QuakerQuaker readers find this. I couldn't use the link there.) My daughter first brought this to my attention. Since then my wife and I have mentioned it to OAFs as seemed appropriate and the reaction has been mixed but quite a bit of it has been as you described. There is something of a "this is how we deal with YAFs" mentality that is not open to change.
Perhaps, as my daughter says, we OAFs are going to have to keep repeating this to other OAFs until the point is taken. In our YM we haven't been completely bad about this. I remember about five years back we made a 30ish Friend convener of the Nominating committee and I marveled at how much better she ran the committee than it had been run in previous years. Younger Friends will bring new ideas and new energies to our standing projects. And we have to be ready not just to name them to committees but to ask them to lead them.
Picture this everybody. A Quaker committee composed of five OAFs and two YAFs with one of the YAFs as convener. Yes, it does work.
Hello Friends,
I think there is something to be said for both supporting opportunities that bring Friends together because they share some similar experiences (are in a certain life stage or are a woman), while also supporting opportunities for multigenerational engagement. Some YAFs have felt silenced by older Friends and need a place to feel like they can go deeper in their faith and be supported in speaking their truth. I think that's what the last two national YAF Conferences have supported. They are not an annual event.
Actually, the Youth Ministries Committee of FGC is not organizing another conference next year, because we are moving into another priority of our work, which is looking at how to build a dynamic and inclusive intergenerational Quaker community (easy, right?=).
There was a lot of energy among YAFs at the last conference to get more involved in their home communities, and try to work together to create a vital religious society. And now we must support each other in this work . But that might not mean inviting younger Friends to be on committees. It might mean re-looking at what the committees are doing, talking with Friends of all ages about if they are being spiritually nurtured by worship on Sundays, and beginning to talk about our faith journeys as a community. What does it mean to be a Friend today? What is your experience as a YAF, OAF, man, woman, southerner? How does your life experience impact your faith? What does a vital spiritual community look like to you?
I feel like if we all want to work towards a more inclusive RSOF than it's up to each one of us to begin these conversations. We are all the present of Quakerism and are responsible for it's future. Let's start talking, playing, praying, and engaging with one another! And let's have fun too. =)
In peace, Emily
How about five YAFs and three OAFs? There is absolutely no reason why outreach work, for example, shouldn't be dominated by YAFs as most new visitors are under 35. I am completely serious.
If I were King of the Quakers I'd stop everything for three years and focus on the nominations process and ask really hard questions that would change a lot of people's Quaker identity. Unfortunately the likely scenario is that we'll just continue to see an changing cast of token 21yos and a few 20-40somethings hanging on of of stubbornness or luck until the leadership all drops dead simultaneously and creates a sudden vacuum. It's happened before in Quakerism and it's not pretty. Most of the Quaker schisms have very familiar-looking generational dynamics leading up to them.
I don't want to overstate the case. There are some of us in-between Friends. But most have gone and the ones that hang in often have a proscribed realm of authority--e.g., no nomination overhaul talks allow! But I don't see enough to avoid a train wreck that will take years to clean up.
My only solution so far is to keep talking and to build counter-institutions like QuakerQuaker that hold us together.
Sorry to comment twice, I try not to do this but I'm particularly interested in this topic, obviously. Thanks for opening it up.
I like this discussion, and have a OAF suggestion. In the NCYM(C) very often there is quite a lag when something needs doing. we sit and wait for someone else to take responsibility and convene the committee. My suggestion to YAFs is to step up to the plate and offer to convene the committee! I know that would work with us! I would hope other meetings at the monthly level or larger would not have a problem with this.
I do realize getting onto existing committees can be difficult, but if you show up and offer to learn the work with out waiting for an invitation, you might be surprised.
Mary M
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I agree with Emily that there is value to having YAF groups in addition to trying to integrate YAFs into the larger SOF communities. When I first moved to Seattle, the YAF group here was very welcoming and it was great to have Friends in a new city who wanted to get together for potlucks and provide support for each other. I think the Seattle YAF group is somewhat unusual in that it has Friends from liberal meetings and evangelical churches. I have found that the contrast makes for interesting discussions and it is nice to see others our own age when so often we are the only YAF (or one of a few) at our respective meetings.
I met with several YAFs recently as part of University Friends Meeting's Year of Discernment to discuss how they felt about being involved in the meeting. It was a pretty depressing conversation. YAFs felt very disconnected from the meeting, to the point that many did not want to attend. This was frustrating for me because one of the reasons that the meeting is having a Year of Discernment is because there are not enough people to fill committees and members are tired. I am trying to find a way to integrate the energy that YAFs have into the larger meeting and provide support for YAFs in the process.
The YAFs agreed that they would be interested in limited involvement, but they are worried that if they offer, they will just be drained. I feel strongly that OAFs need to work on mentoring and positive eldering if they really want YAFs to be involved in the life of the meeting. There is a lot of potential, but both sides need to be willing to work (and work with each other) if meetings really want change.
Richard (and Mary)--
I was so glad to have met you at NCYMC sessions! Yay!
I am of the same heart, spirit, and mind as Emily and Ashley have pointed out, along with Richard's original consideration:
There is a time and place for an occasional meeting that is dedicated to members of one particular group:
Friends of Color have such a meeting during the FGC's annual Gathering. Early in the history of Friends for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, and Queer Concerns, the first soon-to-be-"out"-as-gay men met privately during the Gathering to support one another and to begin to address the homophobia that was present at the time.
Identity development requires a period of stepping away from the mainstream, from the (perceived) dominant culture, in order for one's ego strength to take hold.
I like to think of it as a sort of subgroup's individuation process, like when adolescent child-adults rebel against their parents; or when one partner of a couple goes away on retreat for intentional self-reflection and comes back ready to engage in the life of the couple again, with a greater understanding of capital-S Self.
(Come to think of it, Quakers retire from the busyness of the world when we gather for worship. But then we go back out into the world, interact with it, are challenged by certain things, and return to our meetings once more.
Are we segregated, as a people of faith? No, and not just because we have many visitors and newcomers.)
Separation does not mean segregation. BUT--
Periods of separation that go on for too long or occur too often can indeed suspend one's identity development, and that's when separation can morph into segregation.
In my own experience, I can acknowledge the many times when I wish to segregate myself from Friends who affirm there is no God, no Living Presence, no Source.
Yet, by continuing to interact with a number of Friends who identify as nontheist, I have been honed and exercised in spirit. My experiential understanding of Conservative Friends' take on who and how and why they are has deepened.
I have grown. I have developed further as a Friend.
But if I withdraw from the struggle and seldom engage in it, if I remove myself from the monthly meeting where discussions around theological diversity occur, I will stop growing in the Light.
. . . . .
One last thing I'll mention here:
I have begun talking with a handful of young adult Friends and older adult Friends about more intentional time together, especially at large events like the FGC Gathering. Mostly, I've been floating the idea of a fishbowl sort of activity, which is a conversation-starter/exercise that seems to work well with any small or large group of people.
The fishbowl could be an opportunity for older Friends to ask spiritually oriented questions (or not) to younger Friends, and vice versa. That way, we could find out what questions are burning within each group, and what answers are living within each group and within all of us as well.
Overall, though, living with the question itself, if both groups are willing to hold it, is an important part of the process.
Blessings,
Liz Opp, The Good Raised Up
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Liz, thanks for sharing.
(((Identity development requires a period of stepping away from the mainstream, from the (perceived) dominant culture, in order for one's ego strength to take hold.)))
I agree. One YAF said of FGC Gathering that if her community is everyone at the gathering (instead of, say, a subset of the 18-35 group), her community ends up being nowhere - you just can't connect to 1500 people all at once.
My suspicion is that the same sort of power dynamic that resulted in the really positive comments I have heard about some women's gatherings or women's business meetings (that is, women's ideas and voices wouldn't be overpowered by men's), is occurring now between young adults and older adults in Quakerism.
We as young adults in Quakerism are grossly outnumbered. Older adults don't know how to (and can't be expected to) create the kinds of events and spaces that will draw young adults into this community in equal proportions to older age groups. Our few voices are being drowned out, to some extent. This is despite the fact that, on the whole, our older adults want nothing more than to create a kind of Quakerism that will nurture us YAFs as part of the community.
Let's not let our desire to be a part of the wider Quaker world defeat our efforts to create space where young adults can have a strong Quaker experience in the ways that work best for our generation.
Randomly wandering by, a few thoughts occur to me:
I feel quite clear that the separation time and the conscious integration time are both important. As a YAF, i need time with other folks like me, folks who understand things about being a YAF without me having to explain them all the time, folks who are enough like me that i feel i fit in just looking at them, folks who are comfortable with my nocturnal sleep schedule and my ribald sense of humor (which is not to say that older friends can't be pretty twisted, too). It's really emotionally and spiritually bracing for me, and i need it not just every once in a while but on a regular basis. In an ideal world, it wouldn't be necessary, but it is.
I also feel really enriched by the work i do among older friends, serving on multiple committees. I grow in those spaces in ways that i couldn't if i only had my YAF gathers. I feel myself pushed to grow, to be more--sometimes because the nurturing and the guidance are there, and sometimes because i have to grow in order to keep my head above water. If i have been resistant to many forms of intergen gathering in the past, it's because i've seen a lot of intergen activities become either
A. activities made up of a couple high schoolers, a couple YAFs, maybe one 35-45 year old, and 27-odd over-50's who feel that those few younger friends should be prepared to speak for their age range, or
B. activities that are intergen except that they're set up to work best for older friends' schedules and concerns, perhaps because they've been planned by older friends without input from younger friends.
Sometimes they're both. But that's not to say that intergen stuff can't work or that i don't want it to happen, only that we need to be tender with the how as well as the whether.
As a person currently serving on one o' them nominating cmtes., i'm actively looking for YAFs to recruit. I want YAFs to recruit. I would kill for more YAFs to recruit (well, ok, not kill, but i'd glare balefully, at least). I have trouble finding out about the gifts of my fellow YAFs, however. With older friends, i can look at what service they've done in the past and see if that tells me where they might be led to serve in the future. Except for a few special souls, however, many YAFs haven't been asked to do anything quakerish except plan YAF/YF conferences, so it's harder for me to know what those leadings are, not to mention who has the time and the energy to take up a big responsibility on top of school or first jobs. Since the committees i get to nominate for right now are mostly FGC admin stuff, like personnel...well, friends' yearnings to help with a development campaign don't come up in conversation that often. We really need to come up with a better way to help YAFs to indicate where they might be led, and maybe even to help them bypass the old geography block when it comes to nominations, since many YAFs whose gifts haven't been nurtured are between YMs or in small YMs that don't have the opportunities that some larger YMs do. I've gotta have about 5 or 6 canadian YAFs i desperately want to get in the door, for instance, only i haven't found a way to do it yet.
Also, i might point out that in some ways, we YAFs are often not (contrary to popular belief) the least nurtured group out there. In many quaker circles i frequent, it's the recently post-YAF adults and YAF parents who really struggle; they're not well fed by the YAF circuit, but all there is to fall into is a crowd that can still feel an awful lot older. Those with kids may spend a lot of time yearning for more (or more solid) children's programming at committee meetings, or they may spend time wishing someone would provide some programming geared towards them, not only as caretakers of their kids, but as adults yearning for spiritual nurture. Those who don't have kids may end up feeling like the maturity fairy was supposed to come and magically turn them into older adults only it didn't really happen, and there are so few of them around they may end up feeling even more isolated than YAFs do. Sometimes i think we allowed our programming (and our behavior!) to age with the biggest chunk of our constituency without really acknowledging the difference between 'works for the biggest age group' and 'works for adults of all ages'.
Perhaps we need to take a page from the work we've been trying (albeit sometimes feebly)to do around race issues, and start thinking not only about how we can create more intergen activities or more events geared towards younger friends, but (as emily seems to be suggesting) about what we do in our everyday spiritual lives that welcomes or excludes folks in minority age groups.
I've been thinking a great deal over the last several months about the role(s) of YAFs in various Quaker circles. In fact, I think I first started thinking about it at last year's YAF Conference in Burlington, NJ. I remember hearing a lot of whining from YAFs at that event about how AFs* "don't take us seriously" or "don't understand us" or similar complaints. My response is this: "what are *you* doing to make them take you, and us, seriously, know and understand us (whoever and whatever "us" is)?"
Many YAFs I know were raised Quaker, but are no longer actively involved in a Monthly Meeting or Friends Church. (There are also many who are involved.) Some may have moved away from their home meeting for college, grad school, a new job, or a new adventure. Some may just be not sure about membership in a meeting right now. Some may just be out of the habit of attending worship on a Sunday morning.
To a lesser extent, there are also YAFs who are new to Quakerism who haven't joined a meeting or church for whatever reason. However, in my experience, they tend not to be the YAFs whining about not being taken seriously.
It is my belief that no one will take any of us seriously, nor should they, until we step up to the plate and show folks *we* are serious. Join the meeting or church you attend. Start attending regularly. Volunteer to help teach First Day School (my meeting always needs more FDS teachers!) Let the nominating committee at your meeting know that you would be interested in serving on one or two committees. If you are afraid of overbooking yourself, make it clear you can serve on *one* committee. It's okay to start small. You don't have to immediately get on a standing committee of your YM or umbrella org such as EFI, FGC or FUM. Start with your local meeting or church. Show the AFs that you are willing to step up to the plate and get involved. Many AFs don't ask us to do things, or serve on committees, or know our gifts, because we don't speak up and indicate we want to be involved and are willing to actually do the work when asked.
I agree that some YAF only events are useful, but I see so many YAFs who aren't involved outside of YAF events. That sells YAFs and Friends of all ages, short. (While some religions consider individuals a member of that religion simply because s/he was raised in that religion, that is not the case with Quakerism (or at least my YM). To be a Quaker, you must be a member of a Monthly Meeting or Church.) So, join your meeting, get involved and enrich the fabric of both your life and the life of the Meeting.
Johanna Riordan
Central Philadelphia Monthly Meeting
Philadelphia Yearly Meeting
ps- I currently serve on my Meeting's Nominating Committee. There are 6 of us on the committee and 2 of us are YAFs. I'm currently the clerk of NomCom, and have just taken over clerking from another YAF. I feel like I have a lot to learn, and doing it is the best way to learn. The opportunities exist, if we will just step up to the plate. Our NomCom is always looking for YAFs who want to get involved, not to tokenize us, but to increase YAF involvement enough that we are no longer tokens.
*I use AFs to include Adult Friends of all ages, not just so-called OAFs.
Richard,
If a person does not attend a meeting it should be by their choice rather than a difference such as race or sex.
I welcome any group that may choose to meet "separately" at Yearly Meeting. But I think a line is crossed if a group meets and openly excludes others.
We are called to be one Body ... united in Spirit. If I exclude someone, I make "unity in the Spirit" more of a challenge for the Body.
Tommie
I'm with Tommie.
My MM once started to hold "Men's Group" meetings. The idea was that men would open up and share things that they wouldn't say in front of women. I attended weekly for several months, and then gave it up.
In my case, there isn't anything in my life that I would say in front of a man that I wouldn't say with equal freedom (or reluctance) in front of a woman. And a group that excluded women simply because they were women didn't seem like somewhere that I wanted to be.
It was simply out of harmony.
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